Thursday, October 11, 2012

Norse Adds 8 Utica Drilling Requests;
NYS Shale Gas Wish List Now Totals 29

Still using sluggish Google Maps to illustrate, so you'll have to be patient and let it load.

View Norse's Shale Gas Drilling Permit Applications in a larger map

These pins pin all proposed surface locations (blue or purple), and all associated "bottom holes" (red or pinkish, if there is a discrete bottom hole) for a long slew of shale gas drilling permit applications from Norse Energy.  The list now totals 29 proposed Marcellus or Utica wellbores, all filed since NYS put out the last draft of its new drilling rules more than a year ago, July 2011.

The locations for the eight most recent applications — all Utica projects in Chenango County, and all horizontal except for one vertical — are marked in purple pins sometimes partially hidden behind their pinkish "bottom holes" (if applicable).  So you'll have to do some zooming for the best view.  The pins should stay put.

These sorts of subterranean news developments are distilled — not from our selectively unentrepreneurial Upstate media — but from checking in occasionally with the NYS DEC's wells database, which all are free to comb for themselves, later on.

Norse applications One, Two, Three, Four, Five, Six/Seven, and Eight/Nine were previously covered on this blog, through annotated details, and occasionally maps, so feel free to poke around.

Note that — as of Sept. 28, 2012, through very limited publicity — Norse essentially acknowledged that its Plan A would actually be not to involve itself directly in doing all the work of well pad construction, drilling, completion, and pipeline hookups — when and if NYS gives up its long-running shale gas moratorium.  Instead, the company listed its remaining NYS assets for sale with a specialized broker.

I have also gone to the trouble of collecting from the DEC Minerals Division the associated, as-initially-proposed Spacing Unit Maps.  To get your hands on the more recent ones, look below for well-by-well links to a freebie, off-site document warehouse — or click through the full list of Norse shale gas requests, which I've set up altogether in separate post.

Recapping once again — except for Numbers 11 and 24, the Finelli, J. 1 and the Petkash, T., both vertical drilling proposals — none of these projects can go forward until NYS — and, in what now numbers five cases, the Delaware River Basin Commission — green-light the permitting.  Norse has been taking numbers early, though, on the theory that permits will eventually be issued similarly to the way that deli's deal with their customers.

Here's the 10th (proposed Spacing Unit Map thrown up for public viewing and downloading here):

API Well Number:  31017300170000
Well Name:  Hansen, B. 1H
Company Name:  Norse Energy Corp USA
Well Type:  Not Listed
Well Status:  App to Drill/Plug/Convert
Objective Formation:  Marcellus
County:  Chenango
Town:  Afton
Status Date:  3/29/2012
Permit Application Date:  3/28/2012
Well Orientation:  Horizontal
Surface Longitude:  -75.539042
Surface Latitude:  42.244539
Bottom Hole Longitude:  -75.536898
Bottom Hole Latitude:  42.251547
True Vertical Depth:  4053
Bottom Hole Total Measured Depth:  6582
Drilled Depth:  6582
Proposed Well Type:  Gas Wildcat
Spacing:
Spacing Acres:  112.37
Integration:
Last Modified Date:  3/29/2012

The 11th
(proposed Spacing Unit Map thrown up for public viewing and downloading here):

API Well Number:  31017300180000
Well Name:  Finelli, J. 1
Company Name:  Norse Energy Corp USA
Well Type:  Not Listed
Well Status:  App to Drill/Plug/Convert
Objective Formation:  Utica
County:  Chenango
Town:  Coventry
Status Date:  4/3/2012
Permit Application Date:  3/27/2012
Well Orientation:  Vertical
Surface Longitude:  -75.56551
Surface Latitude:  42.24963
Bottom Hole Longitude:  -75.56551
Bottom Hole Latitude:  42.24963
True Vertical Depth:  8500
Bottom Hole Total Measured Depth:  8500
Drilled Depth:  8500
Proposed Well Type:  Gas Wildcat
Spacing:
Spacing Acres:  39.46
Integration:
Last Modified Date:  4/3/2012

The 12th
(proposed Spacing Unit Map thrown up for public viewing and downloading here):

API Well Number:  31017300190000
Well Name:  Simpson, R. 1H
Company Name:  Norse Energy Corp USA
Well Type:  Not Listed
Well Status:  App to Drill/Plug/Convert
Objective Formation:  Marcellus
County:  Chenango
Town:  McDonough
Status Date:  4/4/2012
Permit Application Date:  3/30/2012
Well Orientation:  Horizontal
Surface Longitude:  -75.739669
Surface Latitude:  42.488964
Bottom Hole Longitude:  -75.745612
Bottom Hole Latitude:  42.500695
True Vertical Depth:  2943
Bottom Hole Total Measured Depth:  7636
Drilled Depth:  7636
Proposed Well Type:  Gas Wildcat
Spacing:
Spacing Acres:  312.75
Integration:
Last Modified Date:  4/4/2012

The 13th
(proposed Spacing Unit Map thrown up for public viewing and downloading here):

API Well Number:  31007300040000
Well Name:  Woodford, D. 1H
Company Name:  Norse Energy Corp USA
Well Type:  Not Listed
Well Status:  App to Drill/Plug/Convert
Objective Formation:  Marcellus
County:  Broome
Town:  Sanford
Status Date:  4/4/2012
Permit Application Date:  3/30/2012
Well Orientation:  Horizontal
Surface Longitude:  -75.461671
Surface Latitude:  42.139871
Bottom Hole Longitude:  -75.457646
Bottom Hole Latitude:  42.134937
True Vertical Depth:  4844
Bottom Hole Total Measured Depth:  6836
Drilled Depth:  6836
Proposed Well Type:  Gas Wildcat
Spacing:
Spacing Acres:  111.14
Integration:
Last Modified Date:  4/4/2012

The 14th
(proposed Spacing Unit Map thrown up for public viewing and downloading here):

API Well Number:  31007300030000
Well Name:  WF, D. 1H
Company Name:  Norse Energy Corp USA
Well Type:  Not Listed
Well Status:  App to Drill/Plug/Convert
Objective Formation:  Marcellus
County:  Broome
Town:  Sanford
Status Date:  4/4/2012
Permit Application Date:  4/2/2012
Well Orientation:  Horizontal
Surface Longitude:  -75.461241
Surface Latitude:  42.14197
Bottom Hole Longitude:  -75.466229
Bottom Hole Latitude:  42.152367
True Vertical Depth:  4814
Bottom Hole Total Measured Depth:  8650
Drilled Depth:  8650
Proposed Well Type:  Gas Wildcat
Spacing:
Spacing Acres:  155.89
Integration:
Last Modified Date:  4/4/2012


The 15th
(proposed Spacing Unit Map thrown up for public viewing and downloading here):

API Well Number:  31007300050000
Well Name:  Helm, R. 1H
Company Name:  Norse Energy Corp USA
Well Type:  Not Listed
Well Status:  App to Drill/Plug/Convert
Objective Formation:  Marcellus
County:  Broome
Town:  Sanford
Status Date:  4/20/2012
Permit Application Date:  4/9/2012
Well Orientation:  Horizontal
Surface Longitude:  -75.480911
Surface Latitude:  42.157057
Bottom Hole Longitude:  -75.472617
Bottom Hole Latitude:  42.143747
True Vertical Depth:  4800
Bottom Hole Total Measured Depth:  10313
Drilled Depth:  10313
Proposed Well Type:  Gas Wildcat
Spacing:  Non-statutory unit under Title 5; review in progress
Spacing Acres:  281.86
Integration:
Last Modified Date:  4/20/2012

The 16th (proposed Spacing Unit Map thrown up for public viewing and downloading here):

API Well Number:  31017300200000
Well Name:  Lightning Rod Hollow 1H
Company Name:  Norse Energy Corp USA
Well Type:  Not Listed
Well Status:  App to Drill/Plug/Convert
Objective Formation:  Marcellus
County:  Chenango
Town:  Smithville
Status Date:  5/4/2012
Permit Application Date:  4/25/2012
Well Orientation:  Horizontal
Surface Longitude:  -75.741841
Surface Latitude:  42.446041
Bottom Hole Longitude:  -75.739778
Bottom Hole Latitude:  42.433927
True Vertical Depth:  3245
Bottom Hole Total Measured Depth:  7528
Drilled Depth:  7528
Proposed Well Type:  Gas Wildcat
Spacing:  Non-statutory unit under Title 5; review in progress
Spacing Acres:  196.84
Integration:  Integration order pending
Last Modified Date:  5/4/2012


The 17th (proposed Spacing Unit Map thrown up for public viewing and downloading here):

API Well Number:  31017300210000
Well Name:  Hardiman, M. 1H
Company Name:  Norse Energy Corp USA
Well Type:  Not Listed
Well Status:  App to Drill/Plug/Convert
Objective Formation:  Utica
County:  Chenango
Town:  German
Status Date:  5/24/2012
Permit Application Date:  5/17/2012
Well Orientation:  Horizontal
Surface Longitude:  -75.854253
Surface Latitude:  42.449786
Bottom Hole Longitude:  -75.851421
Bottom Hole Latitude:  42.438428
True Vertical Depth:  7125
Bottom Hole Total Measured Depth:  11519
Drilled Depth:  11519
Proposed Well Type:  Gas Wildcat
Spacing:  Non-statutory unit under Title 5; review in progress
Spacing Acres:  380.21
Integration:  Integration order pending
Last Modified Date:  5/24/2012

The 18th (proposed Spacing Unit Map thrown up for public viewing and downloading here):

API Well Number:  31017300220000
Well Name:  Lopresti, W. 1H
Company Name:  Norse Energy Corp USA
Well Type:  Not Listed
Well Status:  App to Drill/Plug/Convert
Objective Formation:  Utica
County:  Chenango
Town:  German
Status Date:  5/24/2012
Permit Application Date:  5/17/2012
Well Orientation:  Horizontal
Surface Longitude:  -75.83699
Surface Latitude:  42.47061
Bottom Hole Longitude:  -75.828571
Bottom Hole Latitude:  42.464042
True Vertical Depth:  6990
Bottom Hole Total Measured Depth:  9977
Drilled Depth:  9977
Proposed Well Type:  Gas Wildcat
Spacing:  Non-statutory unit under Title 5; review in progress
Spacing Acres:  122.89
Integration:  Integration order pending
Last Modified Date:  5/24/2012

The 19th (proposed Spacing Unit Map thrown up for public viewing and downloading here):

API Well Number:  31017300230000
Well Name:  Handley, G. 1H
Company Name:  Norse Energy Corp USA
Well Type:  Not Listed
Well Status:  App to Drill/Plug/Convert
Objective Formation:  Utica
County:  Chenango
Town:  German
Status Date:  5/24/2012
Permit Application Date:  5/22/2012
Well Orientation:  Horizontal
Surface Longitude:  -75.85276
Surface Latitude:  42.4755
Bottom Hole Longitude:  -75.860788
Bottom Hole Latitude:  42.487368
True Vertical Depth:  6915
Bottom Hole Total Measured Depth:  11649
Drilled Depth:  11649
Proposed Well Type:  Gas Wildcat
Spacing:  Non-statutory unit under Title 5; review in progress
Spacing Acres:  423.81
Integration: 
Last Modified Date:  5/24/2012


The 20th (proposed Spacing Unit Map thrown up for public viewing and downloading here):


API Well Number:  31017300240000
Well Name:  Wolford, C. 1H
Company Name:  Norse Energy Corp USA
Well Type:  Not Listed
Well Status:  App to Drill/Plug/Convert
Objective Formation:  Utica
County:  Chenango
Town:  Smithville
Status Date:  6/13/2012
Permit Application Date:  5/25/2012
Well Orientation:  Horizontal
Surface Longitude:  -75.743664
Surface Latitude:  42.405612
Bottom Hole Longitude:  -75.737168
Bottom Hole Latitude:  42.388422
True Vertical Depth:  7362
Bottom Hole Total Measured Depth:  14193
Drilled Depth:  14193
Proposed Well Type:  Gas Wildcat
Spacing:  Non-statutory unit under Title 5; review in progress
Spacing Acres:  614.85
Integration: 
Last Modified Date:  6/13/2012

The 21st (proposed Spacing Unit Map thrown up for public viewing and downloading here):

API Well Number:  31053300010000
Well Name:  Miller, E. 1H
Company Name:  Norse Energy Corp USA
Well Type:  Not Listed
Well Status:  App to Drill/Plug/Convert
Objective Formation:  Utica
County:  Madison
Town:  Georgetown
Status Date:  6/13/2012
Permit Application Date:  5/29/2012
Well Orientation:  Horizontal
Surface Longitude:  -75.722614
Surface Latitude:  42.737587
Bottom Hole Longitude:  -75.740576
Bottom Hole Latitude:  42.751741
True Vertical Depth:  4935
Bottom Hole Total Measured Depth:  12314
Drilled Depth:  12314
Proposed Well Type:  Gas Wildcat
Spacing:  Non-statutory unit under Title 5; review in progress
Spacing Acres:  386.57
Integration: 
Last Modified Date:  6/13/2012


The 22nd (proposed Spacing Unit Map here):

API Well Number:  31017300250000
Well Name:  Lyon, G. 1H
Company Name:  Norse Energy Corp USA
Well Type:  Not Listed
Well Status:  App to Drill/Plug/Convert
Objective Formation:  Utica
County:  Chenango
Town:  Smithville
Status Date:  6/27/2012
Permit Application Date:  6/13/2012
Well Orientation:  Horizontal
Surface Longitude:  -75.690459
Surface Latitude:  42.425999
Bottom Hole Longitude:  -75.697482
Bottom Hole Latitude:  42.435295
True Vertical Depth:  7075
Bottom Hole Total Measured Depth:  11119
Drilled Depth:  11119
Proposed Well Type:  Gas Wildcat
Spacing:  Non-statutory unit under Title 5; review in progress
Spacing Acres:  194.66
Integration: 
Last Modified Date:  6/27/2012

The 23rd (proposed Spacing Unit Map here):

API Well Number:  31017300260000
Well Name:  Smith, D. 1H
Company Name:  Norse Energy Corp USA
Well Type:  Not Listed
Well Status:  App to Drill/Plug/Convert
Objective Formation:  Utica
County:  Chenango
Town:  Afton
Status Date:  6/27/2012
Permit Application Date:  6/18/2012
Well Orientation:  Horizontal
Surface Longitude:  -75.606663
Surface Latitude:  42.202658
Bottom Hole Longitude:  -75.6084
Bottom Hole Latitude:  42.196789
True Vertical Depth:  8810
Bottom Hole Total Measured Depth:  10925
Drilled Depth:  10925
Proposed Well Type:  Gas Wildcat
Spacing:  Non-statutory unit under Title 5; review in progress
Spacing Acres:  107
Integration: 
Last Modified Date:  6/27/2012

The 24th (proposed Spacing Unit Map here):

API Well Number:  31017300270000
Well Name:  Petkash, T.
Company Name:  Norse Energy Corp USA
Well Type:  Not Listed
Well Status:  App to Drill/Plug/Convert
Objective Formation:  Utica
County:  Chenango
Town:  Coventry
Status Date:  6/27/2012
Permit Application Date:  6/18/2012
Well Orientation:  Vertical
Surface Longitude:  -75.619063
Surface Latitude:  42.305772
Bottom Hole Longitude:  -75.619063
Bottom Hole Latitude:  42.305772
True Vertical Depth:  8275
Bottom Hole Total Measured Depth:  8275
Drilled Depth:  8275
Proposed Well Type:  Gas Wildcat
Spacing: 
Spacing Acres:  39.91
Integration: 
Last Modified Date:  8/27/2012

The 25th (proposed Spacing Unit Map here):

API Well Number:  31017300290000
Well Name:  Rusweiler, B. 1H
Company Name:  Norse Energy Corp USA
Well Type:  Not Listed
Well Status:  App to Drill/Plug/Convert
Objective Formation:  Utica
County:  Chenango
Town:  Bainbridge
Status Date:  6/27/2012
Permit Application Date:  6/18/2012
Well Orientation:  Horizontal
Surface Longitude:  -75.44643
Surface Latitude:  42.30645
Bottom Hole Longitude:  -75.453005
Bottom Hole Latitude:  42.313939
True Vertical Depth:  7283
Bottom Hole Total Measured Depth:  10381
Drilled Depth:  10381
Proposed Well Type:  Gas Wildcat
Spacing:  Non-statutory unit under Title 5; review in progress
Spacing Acres:  186.02
Integration: 
Last Modified Date:  7/12/2012

The 26th (proposed Spacing Unit Map here):

API Well Number:  31017300280000
Well Name:  Faber, P. 1H
Company Name:  Norse Energy Corp USA
Well Type:  Not Listed
Well Status:  App to Drill/Plug/Convert
Objective Formation:  Utica
County:  Chenango
Town:  McDonough
Status Date:  6/27/2012
Permit Application Date:  6/19/2012
Well Orientation:  Horizontal
Surface Longitude:  -75.716117
Surface Latitude:  42.477035
Bottom Hole Longitude:  -75.715093
Bottom Hole Latitude:  42.488953
True Vertical Depth:  6755
Bottom Hole Total Measured Depth:  11119
Drilled Depth:  11119
Proposed Well Type:  Gas Wildcat
Spacing:  Non-statutory unit under Title 5; review in progress
Spacing Acres:  239.15
Integration: 
Last Modified Date:  6/27/2012

The 27th (proposed Spacing Unit Map here):

API Well Number:  31017300300000
Well Name:  Baciuska, V. 1H
Company Name:  Norse Energy Corp USA
Well Type:  Not Listed
Well Status:  App to Drill/Plug/Convert
Objective Formation:  Utica
County:  Chenango
Town:  Afton
Status Date:  7/30/2012
Permit Application Date:  7/13/2012
Well Orientation:  Horizontal
Surface Longitude:      -75.610916
Surface Latitude:  42.232063
Bottom Hole Longitude:  -75.595312
Bottom Hole Latitude:  42.215876
True Vertical Depth:  4227
Bottom Hole Total Measured Depth:  15795
Drilled Depth:  15795
Proposed Well Type:  Gas Wildcat
Spacing: 
Spacing Acres:  414.45
Integration: 
Last Modified Date:  7/30/2012

The 28th (proposed Spacing Unit Map here):

API Well Number:  31017300310000
Well Name:  Crumb, E. 1H
Company Name:  Norse Energy Corp USA
Well Type:  Not Listed
Well Status:  App to Drill/Plug/Convert
Objective Formation:  Utica
County:  Chenango
Town:  Smithville
Status Date:  7/30/2012
Permit Application Date:  7/23/2012
Well Orientation:  Horizontal
Surface Longitude:  -75.780585
Surface Latitude:  42.421023
Bottom Hole Longitude:  -75.78843
Bottom Hole Latitude:  42.430827
True Vertical Depth:  7000
Bottom Hole Total Measured Depth:  11093
Drilled Depth:  11093
Proposed Well Type:  Gas Wildcat
Spacing: 
Spacing Acres:  428.61
Integration: 
Last Modified Date:  7/30/2012

The 29th (proposed Spacing Unit Map here):

API Well Number:  31017300320000
Well Name:  Brown, K. 1H
Company Name:  Norse Energy Corp USA
Well Type:  Not Listed
Well Status:  App to Drill/Plug/Convert
Objective Formation:  Utica
County:  Chenango
Town:  German
Status Date:  7/30/2012
Permit Application Date:  7/23/2012
Well Orientation:  Horizontal
Surface Longitude:  -75.85321
Surface Latitude:  42.49195
Bottom Hole Longitude:  -75.859457
Bottom Hole Latitude:  42.500737
True Vertical Depth:  6842
Bottom Hole Total Measured Depth:  10480
Drilled Depth:  10480
Proposed Well Type:  Gas Wildcat
Spacing: 
Spacing Acres:  141.82
Integration: 
Last Modified Date:  7/30/2012

18 comments:

Hell_Is_Like_Newark said...

With the gas prices headed South and storage at near capacity, I am surprised Norse is going forward with applications.

Are they betting on a price recovery in 2013 or beyond?

richres said...

Norse and Nernew just went to closing on a number of properties that were listed as"mineral rights do not convey.??

Andy Leahy said...

Yes, Norse has over the last year or so raised cash by selling Chenango County land with the open stipulation that it was retaining mineral rights. It's not really much of a case of "buyer beware," as the writing would be right in the real estate listing, right in the deed, and apparently right in the newspaper listing.

The land was acreage Norse or predecessor Nornew had previously purchased outright, rather than structuring its interest through a traditional oil and gas lease.

A sale minus minerals is known in the trade as a "severance," and it is more common in PA, WV and OH, than in NY (or at least in CNY). In its simplest, clearest form, it leaves two owners over all affected acres, no matter how parcel lines might later be subsequently set up and subdivided: the surface (and tax-paying) owner, and the oil, gas, and mineral owner, who will be untaxed unless and until production is achieved.

So long as there are willing buyers and willing sellers, the freedom to set up dual ownership like this is an accepted fact of legal life. Unless constrained by legalese at the point of origin, the future right of surface access by the mineral owner -- and certainly horizontal access from afar -- are also accepted facts of legal life.

There might come a day in NY when the public interest calls for doing more to encourage "unity of title," rather than continuing to let the open market serve as a haphazard discouragement against these sorts of splits.

Partly because they run forever, mineral severances can become unwieldy burdens to commerce. And they also can be the source of much legal and political controversy, down the road, especially from later surface owners who lack the foresight or knowledge to comprehend the full ramifications the day they closed on their surface-only purchase -- but then find themselves waking up angry the day the rig moves in.

richres said...

The buyer (Hartz Energy Holdings LLC)is in the gas and oil exploration business. I think we can assume the mineral rights did convey,although the listings make it clear they would not.

richres said...

I understand the dynamics of the real estate business..I'm licensed. The properties were sold to Hartz Energy. I doubt Hartz would invest in close to a 1000 acres of land in the Marcellus and Utica plays with out mineral rights.

Andy Leahy said...

Oh, okay, Rich, that's good looking out.

Putting two and two together, I believe you are looking at some of the final transfer documents for a $26.7 million sale of lease, fee, and overriding royalty interests originally announced by Norse in January 2012 -- but without naming the buyer, pending due diligence and all that.

I've not yet seen a final announcement, though Norse -- for all its weaknesses in the field of actually producing gas -- is known to be highly capable in the press release department.

Early on, however, very, very sharp-eyed landowners with the CNY Landowner's Coalition teased out at least a partial reading of the buyer's identity -- by zooming all the way in on a graphic that Norse map makers forgot to edit prior to release. They found "acres divested to Hartz."

That thread, with all the necessary links, is here:

http://forums.cnylandcoalition.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3491&p=15468&hilit=Hartz#p15468

Norse's original explanation of that sale is here:

http://norseenergycorp.no/showpress.php?releaseid=628571

I don't know who Hartz is, and I'm not sure I'll have the time to look into it. A similar transaction for $37 million involves EmKey Resources, LLC, which has already been announced as led by Øivind Risberg, formerly boss at Norse.

Both transactions would be ideal topics for the Norwich NY paper to take the time and trouble to fully understand and explain on behalf of its many land-owning readers.

Anonymous said...

You're obviously a proponent of drill here, drill now, but the notion that we should "drill a well, bring a soldier home" is so unbelievably disingenuous--not to mention unrelated--that my stomach actually turns. You damn well know that the drilling here in NY, however much energy and money it will produce, which won't be much, will in no way allow us to bring a soldier home from anywhere he or she might be stationed. To use their sacrifice as fodder for your PR campaign is sickening. I'm all for energy independence, and I fully well realize that natural gas must and will be a part of such independence, but your assertion is not only baseless but borderline immoral. You probably won't even post this, which is fine, but at least YOU'LL see it.

Andy Leahy said...

Anon,

If it's any consolation to you, the same "Bring a Soldier Home" slogan could also work for solar, wind, biomass, hydro, conservation, and North American oil (all of which I whole-heartedly support, especially in my own backyard, if possible), as well as nuclear and coal (which I'm much less enthused about, whether in my backyard or not).

You can believe what you want (and I find people on both sides of the shale gas issue do that religiously, regardless of the unspun facts -- if any can still be found).

But -- as I've said before in reply to similar rants let loose into various comment sections here -- the U.S. energy supply is right now in the process of being dramatically altered by technology and market forces. I happen to believe politics should rationally guide that, but not emotionally fight it.

Lose your cool, if you must, but I'd much prefer to see my fellow Upstaters level-headedly look for ways to wisely, safely, and responsibly make at least part of a living off the changes.

Dollar for dollar, and BTU for BTU, New York's shale gas resource unquestionably tops the list of local opportunities. And helping put an end to the far-reaching, fully externalized impacts of oil-motivated foreign wars would be reason enough, just in its own column.

How about "Think Globally, Drill Locally" -- what's that do for your blood pressure?

Anonymous said...

Your response, while gratifying, only proves my point. I would hardly describe my comment as "letting loose." At the very least, the ideas of replacing a gas well with a solar array, or vice versa, are AT LEAST topically relatable. Energy vis-a-vis energy.

Interesting point that politics should guide the process, but politics is as least as emotional as it is rational, if not more so. Doesn't make it wrong, since emotions aren't right or wrong, just an added factor in the equation.

"Dollar for dollar, and BTU for BTU, New York's shale gas resource unquestionably tops the list of local opportunities." This WOULD be true if the gas were to stay here. But it won't, and you know it. It will have minimal impact on our domestic supply; it will be liquified and sent to more profitable markets, such as Europe and China; and it will only make a handful of property owners rich, likely at the expense of the commons. Privatized profits, socialized costs.

Andy Leahy said...

Or to Japan, which I see you've left out. Do you have any objections to the private sector seeking profits by helping Japan ease its transition away from nuclear -- using LNG exported from North America? Environmental objections?

I could be wrong, but I think the more likely scenario will be that Europe and mainland Asia will learn to frack their own shale gas.

Meanwhile, you and I will continue to directly and indirectly burn the majority of U.S. supply, right here at home -- because the global market will always be partially discouraged by the extra expense of pressure-freezing natgas for overseas transport.

At any rate, this is a question of national energy policy (which the U.S. has long lacked enough consensus to sensibly fashion), and not really a matter to fight over here in New York.

If you want to petition Congress for a ban or limits on fossil fuels exports -- especially on national security and conservationist grounds -- then that's okay with me.

Business interests will fight you, but I probably won't, as I'm able to at least follow your line of thinking (which is not the case when you insist domestic energy poses minimal impact to foreign oil).

richres said...

Anonymous,
Let me understand your comment regarding the concept of becoming energy independent. You don't believe in using our own resources to alleviate our dependance on foreign oil?
My son went to Iraq. He returned with two Purple Hearts and a life time of nightmares and pain. He went back to school and got a teaching degree he can't use.
I have no problem with tapping the resources below us to keep your kids and my grand son from having to fight so you can have energy at your disposal. If the by product of tapping into that energy is some inconvenience on mine and your part, then I'll live with it. I live on top of proposed wind farms and in the middle of the most prolific drilling area of N.Y. I'm sick of people like you finding only the negative aspects of every thing that comes around. I sell land for a living. I'd be happy to sell you some off grid property and I'll forgo my commision if you take me up on the offer. Until then, quit your wining.

richres said...

Andy,
Having just read the article in the Huff Post about the shut down of wells in Avon NY, I wonder what the anti-drilling crowd would do if all the natural gas suppliers shut down their lines going to the towns apposing gas drilling in the form of moratoriums and bans. It's interesting to see how one town responds to the shut down by stating they were trying to protect the gas company in grand fathering existing wells and supplies. What do you think?

Andy Leahy said...

In reply to Rich:

Thanks for checking in again. I think your point would be a fruitful area for you or me to write about here.

(Unfortunately, I'm pretty well bogged down, working for a living at the moment, and having some summer fun when I'm not working. How about you? You wanna write something for posting here?)

Two or three angles on this occur to me:

Industry would be hand-tied against selectively shutting down pipelines (essentially a supply-side boycott, or strike, but not caused by unions, environmental activists, or NIMBY activists) -- on grounds of market manipulation or interference with interstate commerce. The pipeline owners function as (or like) public utilities, and have public interest mandates imposed upon them at both the state and federal levels. But it is interesting to me that the American tradition regarding this sort of leveraging, extortive behavior is to tolerate bottom-up disruptions, but not top-down. I haven't read much Ayn Rand, but I've heard enough about her John Galt character to know that this syncs up pretty closely with this scenario.

Number two: Why not a commodity-based impact tax imposed upon NIMBY communities and transferred to the affected areas? Why not preferentially tax consumers in jurisdictions that have taken a NIMBY stance on resource extraction -- even if it's just a symbolic stance -- but quietly continue to enjoy all the benefits of that work? If they're not willing to pay more by putting up with impacts on their lifestyles, shouldn't they monetarily compensate those who are? You could also call this a Hypocrisy Tax.

Number three: I'm waiting for the day when the activist-inspired "home rule" theory winds up biting ordinary consumers in the ass -- also in violation of interstate commerce, though never enforced. If, for instance, industry can't get a PA-NY natgas pipeline built, and NYC suffers in several ways for this obstruction, who's to blame, and will that blame stick?

richres said...

I like your number two angle. It smacks of the Obama health care deal. If you don't buy in to my idea of providing health care to people who don't choose to pay for it, we'll tax you into submission. Maybe I'm a hipacrit, but I hate the health care plan and like your idea. I'm not a deep thinker and didn't play out the idea of shutting down the pipe lines and how it would ultimately effect other regions beyond the punished. As far as home rule goes, the atty's who are suggesting these moratoriums to their town boards should have their licenses to practice law taken sway. There bans and moratoriums are going to bankrupt these towns in defense. These atty's know this and continue to push the premise that it's a good idea to impose restrictions they can't defend.

richres said...
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Andy Leahy said...
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Anonymous said...

I live in WNY just south of Rochester. My community is largely agricultural but has housing subdivisions that appeal to commuters working in the city. Many gas leases exist from one independent gas company who wants to use hydrofracking into Marcellus state. No matter where he might establish a pad it will be close to homes not on farmland. That is of great concern since our way of life will be enormously impacted.

Compensatory Integration, Eminent Domain will force us to be part of gas. Mortgages, insurance, property titles are at risk. I become responsible for toxic wastes, road and property damage. This gas drilling must be regulated to stay way more than 250 feet away from my foundation! I am not happy to give up my life, home and culture to make money for a gas company. I support efforts in CNY to keep gas companies from taking over everything you hold dear. It pits landowners with leasing contracts against those without any benefits. Notice who is buying your land - speculators with no heart in the community?

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